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BY Alan J. Wojcik
http://alanwojcik.tripod.com.
Please credit Alan J. Wojcik of http://alanwojcik.com when using this
piece, thank you.
“THE FRANCHISE” SHANE DOUGLAS is a veteran of the ring, having wrestled for UWF, NWA/WCW, ECW, WWE/WWE, XPW and currently NWA: TNA where he has formed a “franchise” with Tracy Brooks and Michael Shane. He is a former ECW World champion as well as a multi-time WCW World tag team champion. This phone interview was conducted as Mr. Douglas returned home from the December 3rd NWA: TNA show in Nashville, TN.
AW: How did you end up training with Dominic DeNucci?
Shane Douglas: Growing up in Pittsburgh, wrestling is a staple being this is a blue collar town. We were inundated with things like wrestling. I went to my first match around the time I was in the eighth grade. But my Mom remembers me playing super heroes in my house, jumping off furniture and stuff. I backed away from wrestling until I was 12. My parents had divorced and I was at my dad’s place. He had put on wrestling and the first vision I saw on TV was Superstar Billy Graham with his manager the Grand Wizard. Here was this tan guy with bleach blonde hair, huge muscles and wearing tye died clothes. He was as charismatic as can be. What twelve year old wouldn’t be enthralled with that? I was smitten with the wrestling bug. My friends and I decided to build a wrestling ring just to goof around in. It wasn’t too shabby a ring now that I look back. We decided to put on a show and make money for Muscular Dystrophy. So we contacted the local chairperson and we ran the show. Through that person we found about a local wrestler named Dominic DeNucci, who had worked for WWWF. We made contact with Dominic and he came to the show. We sold about 200 dollars in tickets and we got some coverage. Any kid given that kind of limelight would jump in to it. Well of all the people involved I was the only one to pursue wrestling a few years later. Dominic said he would train me as long as I went to college, which I was doing at the time. My freshman year of college, 1982, was when we began the training process.
AW: Did wrestling pay for part of your schooling at Bethany College?
SD: Yes but not completely. Bethany is an expensive school and I didn’t make that kind of money until I was almost ten years in the business (laughs.) I would wrestle on the weekends. My first match for Tom Henke I got the grand total of $14.50. I wasn’t rich but the school scholarships, grants and loans came in handy. So the money allowed me a beer every now and then as well as school books and food.
AW: Mick Foley spoke of his training with DeNucci in his book. What was it like to know Mick Foley at that time?
SD: I met Mick in a funny way. I would open the school up around 7am. I would tighten the ropes; turn up the heat, etc. I did those things since Dominic trained me for free. That says lots about him. One day he told me there was a kid named Michael coming down from New York to check out the school. That day after getting the heat on I came back out to see a car running. The school was in a run down area of town. I thought someone gassed himself or something. I went to the back window and saw this mass of humanity lying in sleeping bags. I banged on the windows a few times and there was no response. I thought great someone killed themselves in our parking lot. Just as I was walking away there was some movement and out of the back of the car he got out. He said his name was Michael Foley. That night I invited him to my house. After that when he came into town we would hang out and he would stay at my place. We became good friends and pushed each other in training. It’s amazing that two guys from the same school made it as far as we did. But the ambition we had made us where we are today. We would go to the gym around 7am and leave at 5:30pm dripping with sweat. Dominic would make us leave because he wanted to go home. Mick always wanted to be a wrestle and had a great career.
AW: What led you to getting your MA in Education?
SD: What happened was in 1990 I was working for the WWF. I enjoyed working for them at that at time but in hindsight it was different than my stay in 1995 because no one was gunning for me. Vince was deciding to create a rock star. Jimmy Hart had written a couple of songs and I did some video spots. At the time I got a call from home my dad was seriously ill. So I told Vince I was leaving and he was fine with that, the door was always open for me. When I left my mental image of my outlook was very positive. I needed to make a living and in January of 1991 a friend told me that there were openings for teaching and I didn’t need a degree. It was such an off the wall class and they wanted someone to control them. So I got my degree and did that for a few years. My wrestling career has been different than other people in that I don’t have a strong stomach for BS. You were on the road for six months at a time and not making much money. I am shocked that I am still in the business today.
AW: Is it true you turned down admission to the Saba Medical School?
SD: Looking back I can answer that by saying I am a dumbass (laughs.) At the time I was doing the teaching school and I realized it wasn’t the cup of tea for me. They say everyone makes five career changes in a lifetime and I have made three job changes in my life. I enjoyed my time as a teacher. But I found out in the teaching profession, teaching is the last thing you do especially in the class I was in charge of. I left a lucrative job to do it and wanted to connect with the kids and all those things. I wasn’t the traditional teacher back then I had earrings and long hair. Some of the kids didn’t listen to me more then their parents. They gave me the disciplined kids figuring with my size they wouldn’t give me trouble. After four years of teaching I went back to wrestling and taught part time for a while. Well the school would pay for additional schooling. I wanted to go back and get my BS in biological sciences, which was an interest of mine. I had veered away from it in high school because I had a horrible chemistry teacher and thought if can’t get through this how I am going to survive medical school!? Well my dad was going for all these procedures during his battle with lung cancer I would go with him. I took my wife and she was amazed I wasn’t grossed out by what was going on, they would drain fluid from his lungs. I told her about my dream and she told me why not go back and become a doctor. I took some classes and got straight A’s. I applied to Saba and got accepted. About three weeks before I was going to begin Paul Heyman came to me with a contract with guaranteed money. It was too lucrative to turn down. If I go to medical school it will cost me 250,000 and seven years of my life. I took the money but now I would be done and be in my third year of working. It’s still not out of my head. I sometimes find myself thinking of taking some courses to refresh myself. I was a non traditional student that there wasn’t pressure from my parents and knew I was a wrestler. Looking today the business is not in good shape and I am fortunate to have my career. Today’s kids should go to school and also should have as much right to be a wrestler as I did.
AW: What led you to the UWF run by “cowboy” Bill Watts and how did you become Troy Orndorff??
SD: Wow that’s from way back. Moat people know my real name is Troy Martin and I have had a strange journey in ring names. When I did job for the WWF during training I went as Mike Kelly. Troy Orndorff came from working for “Crybaby” George Hannon (sic) on a show in Windsor, Ontario. I had always wrestled as Troy Martin, I didn’t know of gimmick names. He came to me with this idea. He said to look at him, stare right through him. So I did and he said anyone ever tell you that you look like Paul Orndorff? I broke down laughing. I was a skinny kid from Pennsylvania and hearing that made me think do I have big huge muscles like Mr. Wonderful? No he said in the face you look like him. Well what he never told that when I went to the ring the announcer was going to say my name was Troy Orndorff. Back then and even now I get people in airports and hotels come up to me and say sorry to hear about your uncle or sorry to hear about your dad. It ran the gamut from brother to uncle to dad. I think I wrestled form two to three shows as that name in six months. I went to work with Bill Watts in 1986 just as he was going to try and take the UWF national. He recruited promoters like Dominic and his guys to work the Pennsylvania/Ohio area. Dominic would run shows and Bill would send some of his workers like Terry Taylor, Eddie Gilbert, Missy Hyatt, Dark Journey, Missing Link, Buddy Roberts and Chris Adams came up. From those shows I met Eddie Gilbert. About five or six months later he called me up and said he was booking for Bill and to me all his plans. I went down to a meeting with him and that’s where Shane Douglas came from. He asked me if I wanted to use my real name or the Orndorff one. I wasn’t sure but Eddie told me if I used another name at certain hotels I could check in under my real name. That way the fans couldn’t disturb you. I liked that idea of privacy. Eddie said well you look like a Shane or a Cody. I like Shane. Then Missy Hyatt said out loud how about Shane Douglas. From there on I was Shane Douglas. On those shows Bill saw me wrestling Cactus and it got me in. It was just when the territory got bought out by Crockett and just before Mick could be signed on the NWA stopped any other signings.
AW: What led you into the tag team of the Dynamic Dudes with Johnny Ace?
SD: There was a point when Jim Crockett bought the UWF from Bill Watts; he told the wrestlers and office staff he was going to keep the companies separate and use them against each other. I thought it was a smart idea. All of a sudden they had all of us doing jobs to the NWA guys. The writing was on the wall from there. Sure enough it went down. I left for home and a few days later I got a call that Brad Armstrong got hurt and could I come and take his place. I went in and wrestled with Armstrong’s partner Tim Horner for a few matches. After that Brad had no idea what was going on. So I went home again. But Dusty liked me so much I kind of became his protégé. From there Dusty partnered Johnny and me together.
AW: During most of 1989 the Dudes feuded with several tag teams notably the Midnight Express, Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane, managed by Jim Cornette.
SD: I was thrilled. Funny when you reach the 20 year mark in the business you look back and see the blessings you received. Looking back I do realize what happened to me. I was blessed to meet Dominic and Eddie Gilbert. Then I was fortunate to be in the team with Johnny, we were mid card performers trying to make a name for ourselves. Then we were put with Bobby Eaton, one of the best tag team wrestlers ever, plus Cornette and Lane. You come up with a formula for a great feud. Bobby was one of those guys that could call the entire match in the ring. I knew working with them would be great for my career. It helped establish us as a legitimate tag team title contender as much as a team named the Dynamic Dudes could get over (laughs.)
AW: Was it one thing that led you to leave to WCW and your have your initial run with the WWF that we teased before?
SD: I assumed that if I busted my ass they would pay me and respect my work ethic. The truth is no one respects your work except for the guys you are working with. That became apparent when we wanted contracts. This is when money was being showered out. We had been working without contracts. This is when Jim Herd was in charge and for those that don’t know he was an executive at Pizza Hut before he came to WCW. We went to him to see about contracts, trying to get some form of guaranteed money. He laid them out and said you better sign them because I am not crossing one T or dotting one more I, take it or leave it. That isn’t the kind of attitude I wanted from the man I charge. We thought we needed to work doubly hard because for some reason he had a hard on for us. We went out and busted our asses every night, trying to learn new things each and every time we were in the ring. Something else to mention on the Dudes team name. The first time we wrestled as a team was at Wrestle War ‘89 in Nashville. We wrestled as Johnny and Shane: the New Generation. It was a mix of the Rock n Roll Express and the New Breed (Sean Royal and Chris Champion) who were a cutting edge tag team in the NWA. It was supposed to be hip and up to date. Eddie Gilbert came up to us in the Nashville Airport the next day and said did you guys hear your new name? Well Eddie was a big ribber in his day. Eddie told us you’re going to be called the Dynamic Dudes. John and I really thought this was a rib because of the previous night on the PPV. Why would they change our names the next night we thought? Well Herd had commissioned some people to come up with the cool sounding slang terms in the nation. They felt everyone at the time was saying “Hey dude” or “that’s dynamic!” Herd from his pizza business experience gave us that name which saddled us with heat. Instantly we went from a team that appealed to guys and girls to a team that was laughed at by the girls and despised by the guys. I mean who the hell calls themselves the Dynamic Dudes (laughs.) I wanted to beat us up. We had no chance of getting over. Sorry to go off but back to how I left the WCW, I injured my knee in a match with the Midnights’ doing a cross body to the floor. I was out for six weeks with torn cartilage. The whole time I am out hurt, Jim Ross is calling saying how badly they needed me back. During this he is bad mouthing all of the workers but putting me over saying they wanted me as a single and were going to give me a push. Well I came back and the first match back Teddy Long came to me saying I had a match with Mark Callous (Undertaker’s WCW name) and it was a three minute job match that was going to end with the heart punch, which was Callous’ finisher. I am thinking about this big push and it’s not making sense. I went to Ross and told him what Long told me. He said no that’s wrong it supposed to be a 12-15 minute long competitive match where Callous gets over with the heart punch. I said that’s fine and he told me to tell Jody Hamilton all about it. Jody meets me and he is someone that will not look into your eyes. He said nope you’re getting squashed, you do it or you’re in breach of your contract. The whole thing was lies and double speaks. I told them to shove it up his ass. Johnny and Brian Pillman told me not to quit. I told I wasn’t and I went to Atlanta the next day to meet Jim Herd to tell him what was going on. Herd walks in and says listen Shane I want to let you know that we know you have been talking to New York looking for a deal. It was true that WWF called me but I told them I was under contract and nothing more. He told me I would make a huge mistake in going to the WWF and he could prove it to me. He takes out this file and lays it on the desk. I went to read it but he told me you might not understand it being you’re a wrestler. (Shane pauses for audience reaction) The condescension in his voice was so sickening from the jackass from Pizza Hut. I pulled it from his hand and looked at it. The file that was his supposed proof that WWF was getting killed actually was a paper that showed all of the companies that were in existence combined. We are talking about groups like Portland, AWA, WCW, WCCW but it was exclusive of the WWF. All the numbers combined against WWF and it was a tenth of a point distance. I said Jim do you know what this is? I threw it on his desk and said this is hopeless. If you’re this dumb I cannot work for this company and walked out. In the car I called Pat Patterson and I was talking with the WWF. I never wanted to leave WCW. I had a contact making $2,500 a week but I wasn’t going to be treated like a piece of sh#$. That is one of my faults in the business, I won’t let people treat me like sh#$. I treat people with respect and I expect the same in return.
AW: We covered how you left WWF. During your teaching career, what led you to return to WCW and how was it different from when you last sat with Jim Herd?
SD: There were several differences. One was Bill Watts was in charge of the company. Also Jim Ross and Jim Herd were gone. Bill might not be a people person but he knows how to run a wrestling company. I felt it could be good knowing me from my UWF days. When I went back I was put with Ricky Steamboat and that was really alluring to me. Plus as I alluded the teaching career had run its course.
AW: What was it like being in a tag team with Ricky “the Dragon” Steamboat and you’re going to get a run with the WCW World tag titles?
SD: At that point I was in the business close to ten years I knew how important it was. Being put with Steamboat was good from all standpoints. I was going to be on camera and also Ricky was known for taking young guys under his wings. I have been vocal about (Ric) Flair because his generation hadn’t passed the torch like the previous one did to his. Steamboat was the anomaly of his generation. He took me along with Brian Pillman, Steve Austin, Johnny Ace and Dustin Rhodes under his wing and taught us the things about the business. When Bill came to me and said what do you think of being paired with Ricky, I couldn’t say yes fast enough, Ricky is such a top notch guy.
AW: During the title run you beat Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes but ran into the Hollywood Blondes, “Stunning” Steve Austin and the late Brian Pillman.
SD: Well here is some more trivia. The Hollywood Blondes team was supposed to me and Brian Pillman. Bill called me into his CNN office about three months into my run with Ricky. Ricky wasn’t the best talker so I did most of the mic work. Looking back at those tapes the Franchise character was there. The mannerism and talking of a heel but I was a face. Bills saw that and saw I was a heel. He wanted me to turn heel and run against Ricky. I didn’t I was established enough and didn’t think it would draw much money. It didn’t have marquee value due to my name. I told him to drop the idea and he put Pillman with Austin. That tag team war was fun. We were eager to learn from Ricky, he would take us out there and have 45-60 minute matches. He was the engineer of that train. We were together for almost six months. During that time I think it was Sting and Vader feuding for the WCW World title. They treated the World title as its main spectacle. So we went on next to last and we would burn the house down leaving nothing for Sting and Vader to get from the audience. For the first time in WCW history they swapped out and put us on last. The tag team match was main event thinking we couldn’t follow their six or even minute high spot match. Well Grizzly Smith, Jake Roberts’ dad, would come up to us and say Ricky 8-10 minutes and take it home. He had this I don’t give a sh$% attitude and that pissed Ricky off since Ricky was a true professional. He thought our match should entertain them not just get out and hit the bars. Well one of the first times this happened in an armory in Georgia. We went out there and we started the match. Well 10, 20 and then 30 minutes go by and we are still out there. We wrestled for 57 minutes and we did because the fans didn’t care about it during the first 10 minutes. They wanted to go home. Around the 20 minute mark they began to get into it by 30 minutes we had began all over in their eyes and they were hooked. There are few people that I can name from Steamboat’s generation that can do it. Steve Austin and I can do it from seeing him do it but not that many people. Raven and Al Snow went 45 minutes on a USA Pro show in New York but they didn’t do it right. They felt with the false finishes the fan would get back into the match, but it didn’t happen. They couldn’t figure it out but they went out and did the ABCD match. Steamboat taught us sometimes you can go ABC but you might need to jump to F then drop back to D. (Due to a technical difficulties Shane‘s phone went offline.)
AW: During a “Gauntlet for the Gold” TNA announcer Mike Tenay made mention to the events of august 27, 1994 when you won the NWA World heavyweight title. Looking back do you think it changed the way business is today?
SD: Absolutely. It was a pivotal event in wrestling. I don’t want to sound grandiose but I was fortunate to be part of a great idea. There was nothing I did but portray the image they wanted. At that time the business was pretty stale. Everyone had to be a super corny character like the Gobbly Gooker among other things. Actually it’s kind of like the way the business is today. I was watching Smackdown recently and was wondering what was the point of the guy wearing the afro wig during the Ernest Miller skit? It is so smack in the face of what was wrong in 1993-1994. They say history repeats itself. Here we are with the same dub-ass caricatures they had in 93-94, angles that have nothing to do with wrestling. Back then I was this foul mouthed character that was shooting on everyone, which was taboo at the time. No one did that and even mentioned Ric Flair, the god of the industry, and challenge him and other promotions to matches. It got me attention. Only Randy Savage did that back in Memphis. The ECW product was so diverse from what the standards were. It was blood and guts in all its glory. Everything the industry was running away from. Then there’s the NWA belt which had the most heritage behind it being thrown down by me. Paul Heyman may have screwed me and the boys but he never dictated ideas. He proposed them and made you think about it and had another idea if you didn’t like it. Dad told me once you can always try to be mediocre but when you try to be extraordinary greatness will sometimes follow. I thought about the idea the entire week before the event. This was the first time I could implement dad’s philosophy. I had worked for WCW and WWF and neither company could take care of me. Here was a company that cared for me. It was all or nothing in my mind. When I threw the belt down there were only three people that knew it was going to happen, myself, Paul and Todd Gordon. None of the boys were smartened up; in fact the entire day Dennis Carluzzo kept getting me to sign a contract making me their exclusive property. The boys couldn’t understand why I was avoiding him the whole day. The promo I did was done on the spot. Some of those thoughts change the business. Today everything seems to be a shoot. If I say Steve Williams instead of calling him Steve Austin the fans think I am shooting. I began that by calling Ric Flair Dick Flair. It was an anomaly then but now it’s kind of corny. The blood and guts for no reason just to have it there is bad. ECW saved the industry back in the early 90’s. Think back to that time the WCW was doing bad stuff, the WWF was men in chicken suits. Many people like me became pardon the pun disenfranchised with the business. Totally turned it off and didn’t watch it. The litmus test for me was the bars I hung out in my town, the Backboard Tavern. It was a neighborhood tavern and I would take the ECW show over there every Thursday when it wasn’t on TV. I would show the tape and watch it. The first week there was 10-20 people. Next week there were 40-50, soon enough there were couple hundred people being turned away. This was 25-30 year old men not kids. Many guys that watched wrestling back in the day would see ECW and say that ECW stuff is real. No one had ever thrown down the NWA World title. If we hadn’t done it, it would have been difficult for ECW to have gotten established.
AW: Most fans will remember in the mid 90s you left ECW and returned to the WWF. What brought you back to the WWF and what were your initial impressions of Dean Douglas?
SD: It was presented in a completely different light than what showed up on TV. I thought Vince McMahon was smart in realizing here was ECW was pouncing his product’s ass. His boys would go to the ring and the ECW chants would rain on his boys from fan wearing ECW shirts. Same thing at WCW shows. It was nothing more than getting the mouth piece of ECW and shutting me up because I was shooting on him all the time. It was a real smart way of doing it. Here is the way the idea was presented to me. Jim Ross called me telling me how hot I was in the business and I met with him six or seven times. During these meetings we talked about what the talent was doing wrong. For example no one was hooking the leg on pin attempts. They only did it on the finish. They were essentially telling the fans this was a false finish and they were losing the fans. Vince wanted me to come in as a guy who prided himself as a wrestler not entertainer. It would be a tongue in cheek way to tell the boys what they were doing wrong. A way to tighten up the product. I was supposed to be ribbing without the elbow. Saying to Bret you may the best there ever is, was and will be but your not hooking the leg on the pin. That kind of thing might have gotten the character real heat. But when they went to flush the character after I signed the contract things were different. Before I signed I did some research from calling Sheri Martel, Rick Rude, Paul Orndorff, Mr. Perfect, the Road Warriors and Ricky Steamboat. They had worked in New York in a prominent position and I told them the conversations I had with Vince. My wife and I met with him one time. He said to my wife Carla I am sure you have some reservations about this. What do we need to resolve? Well my wife isn’t one to be assertive on these things. She told him, Vince I am concerned that none of the companies Shane has worked for except ECW has any idea what to do with my husband. He is teaching as well as working for ECW, he is home five days a week and is making a six figure income on top of what I make. What can you offer my husband to walk away from all of this? He leaned across and took her hand in his and said Carla you have my word as a gentleman I am going to make your husband a very wealthy man. To which I chimed in and said Vince you and I have different definitions of “very wealthy.” This was before the guaranteed contracts that became necessary after Hall and Nash jumped to WCW. He said it’s not uncommon for someone in the position I am going to put you in to make $3-500,000 a year. Remember this is 1994-95. That was more money then I made in the business. I told this to everyone and they said he told us the same thing and we made double or triple that. Everything was positive that I heard about Vince at that time. Remember they told me I could come back at any time. I said to everyone do you think he has taken to heart when I shot on him. They told me Vince knows what’s a shoot and what’s a work, he wants you for your talent. I signed the contract and the next thing I know I am being measured for a baby blue singlet. I knew the character was in trouble when we were at the office doing production for six hours on vignettes. I was bored out of my skull. Vince wanted me to do the monotone voice with no inflection which was what the Franchise character was famous for. I couldn’t understand taking someone for example Dan Marino who was one of the greatest pocket quarterbacks and tell him you are now going to become a scrambling QB. It seemed like he was taking the strength of the Franchise and deleting it and making me look bad.
AW: Plus having you say “Definition!” many times.
SD: Exactly. The fans are thinking this guy does great promos, why is he talking like that? The fans don’t know I was directed to talk like that. I told him Vince if I seeing me on TV I am switching channels, because this is boring. Vince said no it’s not going to be boring. Apparently he had a professor in school that talked that way and he wanted to kill the guy. So he figured that character would do it. I thought this doesn’t sound good since Vince told me as I was signing the deal if anytime something comes up and I have concerns call me at my home number no matter the hour. I was so bored doing the vignettes that after the sixth one I wanted to do one over and Vince said why? I told him let me try it a different way keep the other takes if you don’t like my way. I thought maybe he hadn’t seen the Franchise character. I did everything the character did from being at the lectern and analyzing the video in the Franchise voice. Well during this take he was called out of the room and the rest of the people in the room with us stayed there. I asked the 12-15 people that included Stan Lane, Michael Hayes whose mic work I loved and some make-up people, production crew members and camera guys. I went around and asked them which way they liked. Each person in that room Alan said they liked my way. So when Vince came back I was excited that maybe he would like my way too after hearing this from the people. So I asked him which way you liked it. He gave me that Vince McMahon pause and said I liked your way but I like my way better. Every single person in that room that had just agreed with me all said yes Vince we like your way. That told me the character was dead. I wouldn’t get over. The second thing that scared me was being in a company full of YES men. I don’t want to be where no one will tell the boss hat stinks. There is no way to fix things. Maybe three weeks in I knew it was time to get out. I got out due to my lawyer wisely put in the contract a clause that said if I got hurt in their ring due to their negligence I could sue them. I got hurt wrestling partially because of Davey Boy Smith. Davey used to stomp his feet and when he did it damaged the ring. This was about 20 minutes before we were going live on Raw from Richmond, Virginia. 20-30 ring crew people try to fix the ring. They got it done and Razor Ramon and I were first out. But they made the ropes so tight and the mat so solid, the ring was technically unsafe. I broke a bone in my back. I had them and they knew it. Otherwise Vince would have had me for three more years. I know what Vince is like and he would have done worse things to me. To wrap the question up I think the character had potential to garner great heat if they had allowed me to do it in a certain way. The sad part was the boys showing what marks they had in the company were getting mad when they were getting graded by me. They thought it was me disrespecting me. I forgot everyone in the WWF was perfect. I was thrilled when I signed that deal. But I felt I made it to the promise land and I was so relieved to be leaving and going to back to ECW. I thought I hit the lottery. For me it was a great time to leave because most of the same people then are there today entrenched. He needs to change things with the input to the product including his children. How do you fire your kids, you can’t. Unless something changes in the WWE, wrestling will fall. Unless some other groups like NWA: TNA can rise to compete we will watch Vince’s group keep wrestling in the dark cloud it is in.
AW: Many rumors have swirled over the way you won and lost the Intercontinental title reign being awarded the title then losing it to Razor Ramon at In Your House #3 on October 22, 1995. Is it true that Shawn Michaels refused to drop the title to you and they came up with the setup I just addressed? Plus was that the proverbial last straw to send you to ECW before the knee injury occurred?
SD: Absolutely. First off about two week before that PPV the crew was split in half. One half went around the states while rest including me and Razor went to Germany and England. Davey Boy was here in the states and even though he was a big ribber he would tell you something he heard about you. Well he left a message on my machine that Shawn has been talking sh#$ about me in the dressing room. I didn’t believe it since we were friends back during my initial run in 1990, we used to travel together. When I heard the story about the Syracuse parking lot attack where he got a concussion, Davey smartened me up. It was one guy that beat Shawn up and six or seven guys jumped Davey when he got out of the car. I got to believe Davey since six or seven guys would have killed Shawn. Second if I am beating up a guy and this muscle bound guy gets put I am sending everyone after him. Sean Waltman who was also there verified Davey’s story. Then the office called me that they wanted to do a very important finish. They wanted to a repeat of the Rick Rude/Ultimate Warrior angle. Rick beat Warrior for the I-C title at Wrestlemania 5 and they thought that he would beat Warrior for the World title at I think Summerslam and Warrior went over. It was the same story with my angle. I would get the Intercontinental title in Winnipeg, then run my mouth about taking him to school until Wrestlemania and everyone would expect the same finish but he would win. The whole thing would get Shawn on the road to the World title. The dumbass as I think he is from all this ruins it. Well I get a call at 11pm two nights before the show saying Shawn had a relapse of his concussion. I say to them did he get hit in the head again? No, so how can you have a relapse of a concussion unless you get hit again. It’s not like a virus that relapses after a couple of days. I got suspicious so when I get to bar at the hotel the night before Razor is at the bar drunk as a skunk. When he’s drunk Razor can’t keep his mouth shut. So he sees me and says Franchise have a seat. Says he was sorry to hear about Shawn and I told him I was bummed out about it. Finally after small talk he says tomorrow they’re going to have Shawn come to the ring and forfeit the title and then he’ll come out and challenge me for the title. Now how does he know it if I don’t know it? I saw this as Shawn is going to embarrass me on national television. This was another case of the inmates running the asylum. Vince wanted the belt on me and Shawn wanted the belt on Hunter or Razor. It was amazing that the owner who supposedly runs everything is allowing a wrestler to run his matches. I went from seeing them as my friends to seeing them at their very worst.
AW: Once the dust settled the Franchise returned to ECW. At “Hardcore Heaven” on August 17, 1997 you won the ECW World tile in a three way match with Sabu and Terry Funk.
SD: For the first six months Paul seemed content to shove my face in sh#$. Teaching me a lesson I probably deserved. I went for the promise of better money and he held it against me. When I finally won the belt back I felt I really earned something. Paul wasn’t talking to me at all. He would act like he had a headache or something. After I won the title things went back to the old ways. I was fond the way we used Francine in the angle and re-established the Franchise charter. The fans seem to like it.
AW: During the second run in ECW you were part of a group known as the “Triple Threat” and it had many different setups. Which was your favorite of all the parings?
SD: There were three incarnations of the “Triple Threat” and I liked two of them. The first was me, Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko which I liked. I am a mark for Benoit’s work and I thought Dean was a great guy which would later be proven wrong. They were great because I had the World title and people had to get passed them. They showed their ass when Paul started bouncing the checks. The one that was most over was me, Bam Bam Bigelow and Chris Candido. We had time together in the ring and it was fun.
AW: Most people know the reasons you left ECW and retuned to WCW. But I would like to ask, do you regret the move to WCW?
SD: Not at all. Paul owes me $144,000. To me the bankrupt laws in this country are a joke. Tomorrow I could max out my credit cards knowing I can’t pay them and then declare bankruptcy screwing AMEX, Visa and MasterCard. There is nothing to stick to the individual. They owe the boys tons of money. None of us deserved to be lied to. I went to Paul sometime before I left I told Paul to tell me straight up if he can’t pay me I will leave. I didn’t want to be an anchor to the company. Paul put his hand on my shoulder and said Shane you are an integral part of this company and it can’t go one without you. He then told me you have my word on my father’s eyes sight you will get every penny you are owed. Looking back in hindsight at that time he told me that he had began the ball rolling towards bankruptcy. It is what it is and I got my break there. They gave me a platform to voice my opinion. The other night at USA Pro event the fans chanted ECW; well it is a dead issue. The company is dead. Let it die already.
AW: During the last run in WCW you had many different opponents. The one I wish to bring up is the man you hit on in many promos. What was it like to be at Slamboree 2000 with Ric Flair?
SD: (Shane laughs for a minute or two) Prior to working for WCW Ric and I had talked in Jacksonville. My wife and I were on a cruise and we stayed there at a hotel the guys were in. When Ric walks in a room you can tell he is there, his aura is huge. I was talking to Mikey Whipwreck and I felt the eyes on me. I turned around and there he is. He says Shane I am Ric Flair. I told him I know who you are. We shook hands and I told him can I get a few minutes to talk to you. He needed to leave so I gave him my room number. Later on he called me and we talked. I told him why I said those things and why I felt that way. He explained his reasoning and said an apology wasn’t necessary and we hashed things out. The match came up and I don’t think by a long shot it was as good as it should have been. The whole thing got convoluted with his son David. The whole angle wasn’t given enough time. Half the fans there had no idea what was going on and that was typical WCW.
AW: Currently you are appearing weekly on NWA: Total Nonstop Action. What got you involved in the weekly PPV show?
SD: I was one of the first people they called about a year before they launched the idea. Bob Ryder confided in me what they were trying to do and asked me to keep it to myself and I did. Thinking of course it was never going to happen. Lo and behold at a show in Maryland I got word they were trying to reach me. They had tried to bring me in when they began the shows but I had heat with Francine who was there at the time. I knew from the people they were using it would be good and I would be taken care of. They have great energy in that building each week. They pushed Raven and me and it brought excitement to the show. There is younger talent who are eager to make it work. It has rekindled the fire in my belly I can tell you that.
At this point Mr. Douglas needed to wrap up the interview. He asked me to mention he is currently involved with a new “Franchise”, with Michael Shane and Tracy Brooks.
Thanks to Mr. Douglas for talking. Thanks to Jody Davis and Tim Welch of NWA: TNA for arranging the time with Mr. Douglas. TNA’s internet home is www.nwatna.com . Be sure to check out Mr. Douglas’ personal website www.franchisefansite.com . Tracy Brooks has a site www.tracybrooks.net
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